Help with information

Hey, I am getting into Auto-X more and more. I used to be more into just visual mods to make the car more mine, but recently I have a need for speed. Since I have an I4 Fusion, I know I won't be winning any drags anytime soon. So the question is what kind of stuff should I be learning about and concentrating on to improve my Auto-X times. I am looking into getting some Tien Stechs, and Koni yellows to go with the drop and stiffer springs. I know that a new motor mount will help with my take offs and wheel hops but other than that I am kinda lost. I am skilled in electronics but when it comes to mechanics I am lost. I know the basics of a new rear sway bar, STB, H-brace will stiffen everything up and make it work better but I don't know why a strong rear sway bar will improve my understeer but I am curious why and how I can tune the suspension to how I want it to feel. Any information or articles I could read would be much appreciated!

seasonalskier wrote:

Hey, I am getting into Auto-X more and more. I used to be more into just visual mods to make the car more mine, but recently I have a need for speed. Since I have an I4 Fusion, I know I won't be winning any drags anytime soon. So the question is what kind of stuff should I be learning about and concentrating on to improve my Auto-X times. I am looking into getting some Tien Stechs, and Koni yellows to go with the drop and stiffer springs. I know that a new motor mount will help with my take offs and wheel hops but other than that I am kinda lost. I am skilled in electronics but when it comes to mechanics I am lost. I know the basics of a new rear sway bar, STB, H-brace will stiffen everything up and make it work better but I don't know why a strong rear sway bar will improve my understeer but I am curious why and how I can tune the suspension to how I want it to feel. Any information or articles I could read would be much appreciated!

My suggestion is to not bother with mods yet. You need to learn to compensate for understeer, not try to 'tune it out' of your car. A balanced car is faster, but even F1 drivers have to compensate for a car that isn't perfect. If your car understeers heavily and you drive it fast a lot you will learn how to keep a car from understeering and then you'll be able to make proper use of a balanced car.

^ agreed, good advice. However it doesn't hurt to get a few mods out of the way.

Quote :

in a front-wheel drive car, fitting the sway bar to the rear keeps the cornering weight distribution on the front wheels more even, allowing them to better get their power down and so reducing power-understeer. (You fit the sway bar on the back cos it doesn’t matter much if the inside rear wheel goes light – it’s not doing a whole lot of work anyway.)

Quote :

a large rear sway bar limit's the mechanical grip that is created @ the axle onto which it is installed. by forcing the rear wheels to be linked together with a stout bar, the inside rear wheel is more prone to loosing contact with the road thus initiating the oversteer situation, which is generally then exagerated by normal drivers by stepping on the brakes/or lifting off the throttle. This causes weight transfer to occur.

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

Here's the best book on suspension tuning for race applications that I've read. It's free to read on that site. It'll explain a lot about what certain parts do for a car's handling/traction usage and will dispel a lot of common misconceptions about suspension design for you.

Nice articles! Definitely give tons of great info.

Edit-This is a very good section!
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3.html

Good advice to start stock. If you are going to do some modifications, tires and rear bar will probably grab you more time than any other modification you can get. My suggestion is to find some light weight 16s ( try fsor 15-16lbs) Kosei K1s are good if you can get them for your car and some dedicated autox tires like hoosers, Kumho v700s or even a sticky non R compound street tire will work like Nitto NT05s or Direzza star specs.

If you want to know why a rear bar will reduce understeer, it's pretty simple. Let's say you turn into a hard right, the front left wheel and suspension load up. Now at this point if you have a huge front bar let's say, because the job of a sway bar is to "tie" your suspension together laterally for each given axle, as the front left wheel/suspension gets the majority of the weight transfer and compresses, so does (to a similar extent) the inside or right front wheel. So now you are in the corner and you essentially have one wheel on the ground on the front of the car (the left front wheel), and two wheels on the ground in the rear. This means you have 1/2 the grip at the front of the car that you do at the rear.

Have you ever seen a car tripod? By that I mean that the rear inside wheel is up in the air in the middle of the corner. This happens because a huge rear bar or beam (if it's fwd) is connecting both rear wheels. You will get much better turn in and much more lift off oversteer with a rear bar because all of the weight on the outside wheel is also lifting and thereby reducing the grip the inside rear wheel. So large rear bar (by its self) = Less rear grip. Hope this helps at all lol

Oh also there is a lot of really go info on that Autocross link. One thing he mentions about fwd that I meant to say too is that, everybody teaches fast in, slow out. This is definitely a good rule because it keeps people from early apexing. But in a fwd car, especially with a rear bar you really want to try to get the car rotated in the corner entrance. From experience I can tell you, this is very counter intuitive for someone used to driving rwd cars but it is the fastest way in Autox.

Wallace wrote:

Oh also there is a lot of really go info on that Autocross link. One thing he mentions about fwd that I meant to say too is that, everybody teaches fast in, slow out. This is definitely a good rule because it keeps people from early apexing. But in a fwd car, especially with a rear bar you really want to try to get the car rotated in the corner entrance. From experience I can tell you, this is very counter intuitive for someone used to driving rwd cars but it is the fastest way in Autox.

Slide the rears into the apex and slide the fronts away from it?

dogbreath wrote:

Slide the rears into the apex and slide the fronts away from it?

Well tq steer is another issue haha. IMO a lot depends on how much power your car makes and why type of diff you have. In my mk2, the fastest way around most tight corners is to give a little lift off right before the apex. If I do it just right, I can apply power as soon as possible with no understeer.

Wallace wrote:

dogbreath wrote:

Slide the rears into the apex and slide the fronts away from it?

Well tq steer is another issue haha. IMO a lot depends on how much power your car makes and why type of diff you have. In my mk2, the fastest way around most tight corners is to give a little lift off right before the apex. If I do it just right, I can apply power as soon as possible with no understeer.

Ah, yeah. I've only driven a FWD car fast once and it was an EG6. I could go WOT from the apex if I tapped the brake with my left foot at the same time I squeezed the throttle on. Basically the same idea I think.

dogbreath wrote:

Wallace wrote:

dogbreath wrote:

Slide the rears into the apex and slide the fronts away from it?

Well tq steer is another issue haha. IMO a lot depends on how much power your car makes and why type of diff you have. In my mk2, the fastest way around most tight corners is to give a little lift off right before the apex. If I do it just right, I can apply power as soon as possible with no understeer.

Ah, yeah. I've only driven a FWD car fast once and it was an EG6. I could go WOT from the apex if I tapped the brake with my left foot at the same time I squeezed the throttle on. Basically the same idea I think.

Yup pretty much the same thing.

It would also help to have either a racing seat, racing harness, or cg-lock type thing. I'm thinking about getting a harness, but I've got some questions for you guys. Say I were to get a racing harness like this (http://www.amazon.com/NRG-Point-Racing-Harness-Style/dp/B00457SG0U) Would I be able to mount it on the floor behind the seat? (My shoulders are below the top of the seat, so that shouldn't be a problem). Would the side mounts mount right where each side of the seat belt is mounted now, or would there be any modification needed? Lastly, could I use this harness for daily driving, or would I leave the stock seatbelt in so I can use that, and just use the harness for racing? Does this sound like a good idea?

acedeuce802 wrote:

It would also help to have either a racing seat, racing harness, or cg-lock type thing. I'm thinking about getting a harness, but I've got some questions for you guys. Say I were to get a racing harness like this (http://www.amazon.com/NRG-Point-Racing-Harness-Style/dp/B00457SG0U) Would I be able to mount it on the floor behind the seat? (My shoulders are below the top of the seat, so that shouldn't be a problem). Would the side mounts mount right where each side of the seat belt is mounted now, or would there be any modification needed? Lastly, could I use this harness for daily driving, or would I leave the stock seatbelt in so I can use that, and just use the harness for racing? Does this sound like a good idea?

Do not get a harness. #1 A harness on a stock seat is extremely dangerous and won't do much for you in terms of keeping you from moving around. Factory seats are especially weak compared to FIA approved buckets and can break in half during an accident. People who do this are asking for broken backs. #2 You never mount harness on the floor behind the seat. If you crash spinal compression is guaranteed. #3 Even with a bucket, and harness bar, a harness without a roll cage isn't ideal. If you roll over, your head is the roll bar. Now I can understand why people use this last setup, cages are expensive and heavy but still, I'd rather be safe than sorry. My advice is that you keep your stock seat and seat belt. Once you start getting into modifications like that you move away from having a comfortable daily to having an inconvenience you have to deal with every day. Save your money and get a Miata if you wanna start compromising the comfort of your car. A new ass fusion isn't exactly the car to turn into a track slut. But please no matter what you decide DO NOT mount a harness with your stock seat.

Ok thanks, glad I asked! Was just kind of a thought going around, since I decided I'm not getting a full racing seat for sure. So I think I'm gonna think about the CG-lock (http://www.cg-lock.com/) just to keep my booty planted while autocrossing, so I'm not fighting to stay in the seat.

acedeuce802 wrote:

Ok thanks, glad I asked! Was just kind of a thought going around, since I decided I'm not getting a full racing seat for sure. So I think I'm gonna think about the CG-lock (http://www.cg-lock.com/) just to keep my booty planted while autocrossing, so I'm not fighting to stay in the seat.

Hmm, I've never seen that before. So does it just allow you to tighten your 3 point? I'm surprised more people aren't using these, it seems like a good idea!!

honestly i think it would be worth to save the money and buy a miata or something small light rwd. Keep your car fun on the street. When you start getting to harsh on the street it really stresses the car.

Wallace wrote:

acedeuce802 wrote:

Ok thanks, glad I asked! Was just kind of a thought going around, since I decided I'm not getting a full racing seat for sure. So I think I'm gonna think about the CG-lock (http://www.cg-lock.com/) just to keep my booty planted while autocrossing, so I'm not fighting to stay in the seat.

Hmm, I've never seen that before. So does it just allow you to tighten your 3 point? I'm surprised more people aren't using these, it seems like a good idea!!

CG Locks are pretty good. I had an earlier version of them on my Cobra and it was, essentially, the best a 3-point can ever be.

ludedude13 wrote:

honestly i think it would be worth to save the money and buy a miata or something small light rwd. Keep your car fun on the street. When you start getting to harsh on the street it really stresses the car.

Yeah I agree, I'm just looking to play around with some autox every once in a while. But once I get a co-op and start bringing in some real money I'll start looking at miata's.

I know how to drive my car as it sits right now. I have out run several cars faster than mine in the corners as it sits right now. I want the info on how to improve on the areas that I am seeing problems and stuff I would like to fix. I am pressed for time right now (work :/) but I will for sure be reading those articles asap. I appreciate the help! If you/anyone has any more information I would and do appreciate it!

seasonalskier wrote:

I know how to drive my car as it sits right now. I have out run several cars faster than mine in the corners as it sits right now. I want the info on how to improve on the areas that I am seeing problems and stuff I would like to fix. I am pressed for time right now (work :/) but I will for sure be reading those articles asap. I appreciate the help! If you/anyone has any more information I would and do appreciate it!

Check out the site I linked to.

I will as soon as I am home from work tonight.

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