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 Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots

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acedeuce802

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:51 pm

I don't consider just coilovers a full suspension because it will basically give you the same gains as a good shock/springs combo, aside from ride height adjustablity. On a performance aspect, I would say that Koni Yellows or Bilsteins (whatever the sport model is called) with good springs are better than say KW V1 and could compete with V2's. I would consider a full suspension to be either springs/shocks or coilovers, sway bars and endlinks, chassis braces etc...

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halo0

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:56 pm

Oh I see what you were trying to say. Yeah that's true, obviously you are paying the extra for adjustability with coils and you could opt instead to spend that extra money on other suspension components. It just depends on what your goals are.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:00 pm

Right, I'm thinking strictly on performance that a car with shocks/springs/sway bars/braces will outperform just KW V1's. Now if we're talking practicality, it's a different story. I'm not too excited to become a snow plow this year lol.

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halo0

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:05 pm

Yeah it would. I don't think anyone is suggesting that getting coils means you don't need any other upgraded components like swaybars etc. If that was the case getting coils would be cheaper overall. But it's not.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:36 pm

i actually just read up on this article in my EuroTuner magazine, where they started out by getting Neuspeed lowering springs with Koni Orange (FSD i think) for a Mk4 GTI 1.8T. Testing the GTI through a slalom at stock the time was 65.2 mph, and 69.4 mph with the Cup Kit, then they fitted 28mm Neuspeed rear bar, and went through the slalom at 70.5 mph, an increase of 1.1 sec just from the rear bar alone. they also tested the lateral grip, Stock was at 0.82g, Cup Kit was 0.88g, then Cup Kit with Rear Bar was 0.90g. so getting just coilovers isnt a full suspension setup, just a suspension upgrade, so im agreeing with Adam, it take more then just shocks/spring or coilovers to be considered a full suspension
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halo0

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:43 pm

halo0 wrote:
Oh I see what you were trying to say. Yeah that's true, obviously you are paying the extra for adjustability with coils and you could opt instead to spend that extra money on other suspension components. It just depends on what your goals are.
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acedeuce802

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:48 pm

Undertaker4 wrote:
i actually just read up on this article in my EuroTuner magazine, where they started out by getting Neuspeed lowering springs with Koni Orange (FSD i think) for a Mk4 GTI 1.8T. Testing the GTI through a slalom at stock the time was 65.2 mph, and 69.4 mph with the Cup Kit, then they fitted 28mm Neuspeed rear bar, and went through the slalom at 70.5 mph, an increase of 1.1 sec just from the rear bar alone. they also tested the lateral grip, Stock was at 0.82g, Cup Kit was 0.88g, then Cup Kit with Rear Bar was 0.90g. so getting just coilovers isnt a full suspension setup, just a suspension upgrade, so im agreeing with Adam, it take more then just shocks/spring or coilovers to be considered a full suspension
The orange one's are the STR.T, just fyi.

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acedeuce802

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:16 pm

Now here's the last pic, since this is the Rolling Shot thread!

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:40 pm

.


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Wallace
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:55 am

Ohh that last picture is great! And I agree, just springs, shocks or coilovers is not "full suspension". Also Dani, I told you, that rear bar is the key, even before you do spring/shocks
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:41 pm

Wallace wrote:
Ohh that last picture is great! And I agree, just springs, shocks or coilovers is not "full suspension". Also Dani, I told you, that rear bar is the key, even before you do spring/shocks
what about a front bar?
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:47 pm

Undertaker4 wrote:
Wallace wrote:
Ohh that last picture is great! And I agree, just springs, shocks or coilovers is not "full suspension". Also Dani, I told you, that rear bar is the key, even before you do spring/shocks
what about a front bar?

Front bar is not nearly as important as the rear bar for front tire traction.
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Undertaker4

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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:26 pm

And strut braces?
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:33 pm

Even less important, unless your car is really old and the strut towers are far from the firewall.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:31 am

A bigger front bar will just cause your car to understeer. You need to try and get the thing to tripod. And yea, chassis braces can help but really it's not going to be worth the money right now, a rear bar will make a very noticeable difference through the corners.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:21 pm

Wallace wrote:
A bigger front bar will just cause your car to understeer. You need to try and get the thing to tripod. And yea, chassis braces can help but really it's not going to be worth the money right now, a rear bar will make a very noticeable difference through the corners.
so for the mk4 you have to get a new front bar to go lower, should i get the smallest possible?
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Wallace
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:13 pm

Undertaker4 wrote:
Wallace wrote:
A bigger front bar will just cause your car to understeer. You need to try and get the thing to tripod. And yea, chassis braces can help but really it's not going to be worth the money right now, a rear bar will make a very noticeable difference through the corners.
so for the mk4 you have to get a new front bar to go lower, should i get the smallest possible?
First how low can you go with the stock bar? Others will disagree with me but my suggestion at that point is to take off your front bar and see how it handles before investing in a bigger front bar. I don't doubt that your turn in would increase even more without any negative effects
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:16 pm

Shit like that scares me. Some kid on the mazda forums had a really aggressive setup on his hatch with a stiff rear bar etc and he was taking an exit ramp pretty fast, got some snap oversteer and rolled his car like 4 times. Shocked

He walked away with just some scrapes.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:26 pm

halo0 wrote:
Shit like that scares me. Some kid on the mazda forums had a really aggressive setup on his hatch with a stiff rear bar etc and he was taking an exit ramp pretty fast, got some snap oversteer and rolled his car like 4 times. Shocked

He walked away with just some scrapes.

Lift-off oversteer has put a lot of FWD cars in the field.
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Wallace
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:13 pm

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard or read about someone who crashed a FWD car and then said "It's FWD, I wasn't expecting it to oversteer" u DUh , in my eyes the problem is that people add parts to there car but never really learn the car than decide one day to drive way to fast around a corner. That always amazed me although I can say, I did that once and believe you me it taught me a lesson.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:47 pm

Wallace wrote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard or read about someone who crashed a FWD car and then said "It's FWD, I wasn't expecting it to oversteer" u DUh , in my eyes the problem is that people add parts to there car but never really learn the car than decide one day to drive way to fast around a corner. That always amazed me although I can say, I did that once and believe you me it taught me a lesson.

What gets me are people who don't know a RWD car can understeer on power
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:57 pm

so what would a Reliant Robin be considered as? its neither Understeer, nor Oversteer
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:59 pm

Rolloversteer.
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:02 pm

halo0 wrote:
Rolloversteer.
Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Saturday, Nov-13-10 Rolling Shots   Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:15 pm

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/clarkson-tips-over-reliant-robin?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter
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