Off the Chain Video Thread

must have been the scare of his life, not knowing it would launch like that

lol, not like its his car or anything

Wallace wrote:

lol, not like its his car or anything

haha i was going to post the same thing but i was lazy.

That's a Cosmo engine.. in a Miata. 20b's are nice.

I would do this.

Codys 92 Miata from Daniel Kruthanooch on Vimeo.

you fail at embedding.


rotory sprite > rotory miata



supercharged

I think MR2s are bad cars that should never have been sold. The nature of their oversteer through high speed corners and over crests (this video shows a corner that is taken close to top gear in most cars, over a crest) is basically uncontrollable. Nobody is good enough to get one back in line with any consistency when they snap out like that.

damn, well he must have known what he was getting into when he took the car to the track

The thing is you don't have to be driving that hard for the back to snap out.

do MR2's oversteer when under acceleration or does it oversteer, all the time

At low speeds it's perfectly balanced, and feels amazing to drive. The problem is that at higher speeds a car will gain a tendency to oversteer due to a trait called 'angular velocity.'

In low speed cornering the angular velocity is very high, and in 'wider' or 'faster' corners the angular velocity is low. When the AV is lower the front tires have an easier time changing the car's direction and therefore the balance of available traction between front and rear changes, causing a tendency to oversteer.

At speeds above 75 or 80 (mostly depending on a given MR2's suspension rates and wear) MPH an MR2 is going to oversteer from direction change, it's going to oversteer QUICKLY and at a high angle, and it is not going to come back in line with such a short wheelbase and mid-engine. Add in minor throttle mistakes, minor steering mistakes, bumps, crests, or changes in corner radius and you have a deathtrap.

This is not a problem in all short-wheelbase/mid-engine cars. A hugely aggressive wing is going to help tame the back of an MR2 but it's only going to make it snap out quicker if you overcome the extra traction from downforce.

dogbreath wrote:

I think MR2s are bad cars that should never have been sold. The nature of their oversteer through high speed corners and over crests (this video shows a corner that is taken close to top gear in most cars, over a crest) is basically uncontrollable. Nobody is good enough to get one back in line with any consistency when they snap out like that.

I'm sorry but for once, I have to disagree with you . There are lots of people who track MR2s without incident. Granted it is a difficult car to learn to drive, but it is not necessarily unpredictable. The guy in the video simply lifted off, and yes I agree that consistently, that would be a difficult recovery but that is why people with enough seat time, including everyone else in the video knew that you either had to have enough balls to go through flat out or you shouldn't go through that fast. I have only driven an mr2 once so I barely have a leg to stand on, but I have talked to a few people who tracked them and everyone loves them. And this is not the only car that likes to snap oversteer, lot's of cars including 911s, and even properly set up Subaru GCs will snap oversteer if you lift off in a corner like that. There are lot's of ways to crash a car, especially on the ring, the MR2 is just a harder car to drive.

Wallace wrote:

I'm sorry but for once, I have to disagree with you.

That's okay, a lot of people are wrong

Wallace wrote:

There are lots of people who track MR2s without incident. Granted it is a difficult car to learn to drive, but it is not necessarily unpredictable.

"I haven't crashed it yet" does not mean, "Perfectly stable!"

I didn't say it was unpredictable, I said it was a bad car!

Wallace wrote:

a few people who tracked them and everyone loves them.

I know. People also like hellaflush and Dave Matthews' Band.

Wallace wrote:

And this is not the only car that likes to snap oversteer,

It's also not the only car I think has trash handling. Also note that I wasn't saying it has snap oversteer problems, I think it have oversteer-in-general problems.



Case-in-point, yes it is possible to keep an MR2 on the road while driving hard, and I have, but I will never accept that it is a good handling car.

for D

I have driven a couple 911s and I know about "snap oversteer". Also my short wheel base miata has this problem sometimes. With 911s though its all about throttle control. I always heard about how they were doctor killers and too hard to drive and bla bla bla but at the same time didnt think it was true because they drive them in racing ALL the time. if you watch ALMS theres a ton of 911s. After driving my friends 600+ whp 993 at midohio on their autox course I learned quick of their snap oversteer. Basically, with 305 rear tires and an engine over them, it wants to understeer. so you cant push through the corner you have to cost off the throttle then come back on it on exits. The sheer amount of grip the car has is RIDICULOUS and just grabs. However, if you're still turning it'll push the front. If you let off the gas when sliding the back the rear will regain grip and send you the other way. That plus the weight of the engine pendulums you the opposite way. Realizing that it was VERY touchy with the throttle I strapped in with his 6 pt harness vs using the seat belt and I could hover my feet in the air on the pedals and be much more delecate since the harness was doing all the work of holding me in place. after probably 10 minutes of fucking around and then switching to the harness I could drift the 993 with big meaty tires all around (r888s btw) and let it come back, then drift the other way. No snapping. it was seriously about VERY VERY precise throttle control. if you did the "on/off" switch of the throttle it'd want to spin on you.

MR cars are like this but less prevalent in their ways. I've been in an exige that snapped and almost sent us off track. the problem was again, the driver lifted off the gas fast in fear of sliding and it grabbed and went the other way. My miata with the 205s on would do this after drifting because it didnt have enough power to keep the wheels spinning. If you had to much steering input when it regained it'd fly the other way and spin you out.

point is, any car can be driven hard. you just need seat time like nick said. People that say a car is crap because its too hard to drive or too small or to dangerous may be right, but speak for themselves.

What do you think people though when driving open wheel open cockpit 50s formula cars with no seatbelt and a transmission next to their leg?

...that didn't stop them from racing.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/porsche-911-gt3-drifting-by-keiichi-tsuchiya_90154.htm

this one has prodigy playing but still proves my point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUOHK525EEs

Race wrote:

...that didn't stop them from racing.

I think most 911's and most F1 cars, new and old, probably handle better than an MR2.

I don't think mid-engined cars are bad, or rear-engined cars. I think the second gen MR2 handles poorly, even though it is a mid-engined sports car.

The video I linked to didn't really illustrate my point and I don't think I know how I could. I think an MR2 handles badly just like I think a stock 88 fox-body handles badly and a 65 Dodge Van with an airbrushed painting of a Viking god on the side handles badly.

I wouldn't mind an MR2 as a race car, if everyone else was driving equally shitty cars.


As far as them being dangerous, I think they're too dangerous for the people who buy them. Two of them crashed in front of me, and one of them behind me, when I was racing in Colorado. Selling a car that high schoolers can afford that requires the years of racing experience that some of us have to drive safely is kind of an iffy decision in my mind. 911's killed rich guys, big deal, they were all old enough to know what they were doing. Mid-engined Formula cars are designed specifically for whackos like you and I. MR2's are designed for... anyone who doesn't know what 'lift throttle oversteer' means.

haha ford capri and not a mercury. still crazy!

When they jumped the curbs I got very happy.

those things are so fast!

though I'm still not agreeing with dogbreath I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-_3fQY210&feature=player_embedded

hahhahahahha crazy! can you imagine being in that black car?